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Dáil Éireann - Volume 296 - 09 February, 1977 Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Examination Dispute. Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry 22. Mr. MacSharry asked the Minister for Education the steps he is taking regarding the setting and correcting of this year's examination papers in view of the dispute between his Department and the TUI; and if he will make a statement on the matter. Mr. Carter Mr. Carter 23. Mr. Carter asked the Minister for Education the position between his Department and the TUI regarding the supervising of the summer examinations for post-primary pupils. Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry 1138 [1138] Mr. P. Barry: With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 22 and 23 together. Discussions are proceeding in regard to this matter and it would not be appropriate to make a statement at present. Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry: Can the Minister tell us what kind of discussions? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: Discussions between the union involved and my Department. Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry: When did these discussions begin? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: They are in progress in fact today. Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry: Since when? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: Initial contact was made some time ago and the formal meetings began today. I do not think they will conclude today; it will take a number of meetings before there will be either a breakdown or a result. Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry: Is the Minister aware of the hardship the dispute is causing to a big number of students who are waiting to do examinations? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: I am, yes. Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry: Has the Minister alternative proposals in the event of non-agreement between himself and the TUI to ensure and guarantee at this stage, regardless of the discussions in progress, that examinations will be set and corrected in the coming session? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: No, I have not because I think I can forsee that there will be agreement. Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry: Surely as Minister for Education, the Minister must give an absolute guarantee that students will have the opportunity to sit for their examinations and have their examination papers corrected? Surely that is the Minister's responsibility and he must give that guarantee no matter what action he has to take? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry 1139 [1139] Mr. P. Barry: I am quite confident that will be the position. Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson: Are the negotiations which are now proceeding within the framework of conciliation and arbitration? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: No. Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson: Did the Minister's Department plead inability to pay at a meeting of an arbitration council? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: I do not think the document involved is worded in that way. I am speaking from memory now. Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry: The answer is yes. Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: No, it is not. Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry: And you will do the same again with these. Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: I regret I cannot remember the actual details of the submission from my Department but there was something not quite in that form of words but which, perhaps, would convey the same impression. Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson: The Minister said the present negotiations are under the arbitration procedure? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: No, I said they were not. Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson: Would the Minister like to say what happened at arbitration, if anything? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: Yes, the union involved withdrew its members because they said the submissions from my Department—again speaking from memory and subject to correction— contained a phrase, and this is the type of phrase the Deputy refers to, which they had understood should not affect the discussions in question. I am a bit too vague to talk about it here because it is some time since I saw the papers. Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson: Did the Minister's predecessor and the Department give a guarantee that this plea of inability to pay would not be introduced at the arbitration proceedings? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry 1140 [1140] Mr. P. Barry: No. There is a fine point there. The argument my Department made was that it would not be used in the event of the arbitrator finding against my Department but they could give no undertaking that it would not enter into the discussions. Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson: Could the Minister say what the total cost of paying the teachers in dispute would be to his Department? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: The Deputy would have to put down another question because I have not that information here. An Ceann Comhairle Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle: Question No. 24. Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson: Would the Minister—— An Ceann Comhairle Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle: I have allowed a long series of questions on this. Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson: I submit that it is a very serious question. There are many students involved. My briefcase is full of letters from agitated students who are really perturbed about the position as very often jobs depend on their getting certificates. Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: I agree absolutely but I am not sure that we are doing a great deal of good in the dispute by having it aired in this way at this time. Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry: You had 12 months—— Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: If the Deputy has something to say, he should stand up and put his question through the Chair and not shout questions or remarks across the House at me. An Ceann Comhairle Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle: Order. Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry: Sorry. Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson: Have the Minister's Department advanced any further with the idea of an examinations board which would preclude such disputes as this arising? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: Not in the context of this dispute, no. Mr. Wilson Mr. Wilson 1141 [1141] Mr. Wilson: Would the Minister undertake to let me know by correspondence the total cost of paying the teachers for setting and marking these examinations? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: I should be glad to do so. Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry Mr. MacSharry: Why did it take until today to get the parties concerned together in view of the fact that many of these examination papers have to be set before the end of the month and why was not some action taken in the course of the past nine months? Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry Mr. P. Barry: That is not true at all. As the Deputy knows, the union in question had a ballot among their own members and I think the result of that —again speaking from memory—was not known until the middle or end of last month. So, there is no delay in that regard. An Ceann Comhairle Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle: Question No. 24. Mr. Power Mr. Power Mr. Power: Arising directly out of what the Minister said—— An Ceann Comhairle Seán Treacy An Ceann Comhairle: I am sorry. I have called the next question. I have given every latitude on this matter. Dáil Éireann 296 Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. Examination Dispute. Questions 19770209
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