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Dáil Éireann - Volume 260 - 18 May, 1972

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Marlborough House, Dublin.

[2152] 24. Dr. O'Connell and Dr. Thornley asked the Minister for Education if he will indicate the average daily number of boys being held in Marlborough House at present; and the average weekly commital rate.

Mr. Faulkner: The average daily number of boys held in Marlborough House at present is 10, of whom three would be on remand.

The average number committed on detention weekly is three. The average number remanded weekly is 12.

Mr. E. Collins: Is it not a fact that the Kennedy Report recommended the immediate closure of Marlborough House in 1970? We are now coming into the middle of 1972 and Marlborough House has not been closed. This has a very bad effect in this very delicate sphere.

An Ceann Comhairle: All this arises on the next question.

Mr. E. Collins: The Minister referred to it on this question.

An Ceann Comhairle: It arises on Question No. 25.

Dr. O'Donnell: Did the Minister mention Oberstown, County Dublin?

Mr. Faulkner: Yes.

Dr. O'Connell: Is it on this question?

Mr. Faulkner: No.

An Ceann Comhairle: We have passed away from this question.

25. Dr. Byrne asked the Minister for Education the reason for the delay in closing down Marlborough House, Dublin.

Mr. Faulkner: No further committals on remand will be accepted in Marlborough House from 22nd May, 1972.

In regard to committals on detention, my Department is making arrangements with another institution for boys in relation to admission which would [2153] have the effect of reducing the numbers on detention in Marlborough House to the point where it will be phased out altogether in a short time.

Dr. O'Connell: Will it be demolished?

Mr. Faulkner: I do not know what will happen to it. In so far as the young people are concerned as I pointed out we are phasing it out in a very short time.

Dr. O'Connell: Has the Minister visited Marlborough House?

An Ceann Comhairle: That is a separate question.

Dr. O'Connell: It is relevant to Marlborough House about which there is considerable public disquiet not just within the House but outside it.

Mr. Faulkner: I can assure the Deputy that I am as fully aware as the Deputy is——

Dr. O'Connell: Has he visited Marlborough House?

Mr. Faulkner: I am not going to answer that type of question because I could be very easily asked other questions of a similar nature which might not be relevant. I want to point out clearly my first official visit, as far as I can remember, when I was appointed Minister, was to St. Conleth's in Daingean so I can assure the Deputy I am very concerned with the particular situation here.

Mr. Bruton: On the assumption that the last remand will be before 22nd May, when does the Minister expect that the last boy will actually leave Marlborough House and the place will consequently be closed?

Mr. Faulkner: I have said here that no further committals on remand will be accepted in Marlborough House from 22nd May. These are not the only boys who are in Marlborough House. There are a number on detention and my Department is making arrangements with an institution for boys in relation to their admission which would have the effect of reducing [2154] the number on detention in Marlborough House to the point where it would be phased out in a short time.

Dr. O'Connell: Can I have an assurance from the Minister that those on detention there at the moment will be removed as soon as possible?

Mr. Faulkner: As soon as we can make arrangements.

An Ceann Comhairle: I am calling Question No. 26.

Dr. O'Connell: Will it be within two months?

Mr. Faulkner: I cannot say.

Dr. O'Connell: The Minister stated over a year ago that no further boys would be admitted there. There are still boys being admitted.

Mr. Faulkner: I want to say that first of all the Kennedy Commission was set up by the Department of Education because they recognise the problem. The Department anticipated the findings of the Kennedy Commission.

Mr. E. Collins: They did not do much about it.

Mr. Faulkner: They anticipated it to the extent of having Finglas practically ready to be opened when the report was published.

Mr. E. Collins: Marlborough House should have been closed down two years ago.

Mr. Faulkner: I repeat that they anticipated it to the point where they had, in fact, Finglas practically completed by the time the report was published. Prior to that nobody seemed to be taking the slightest interest in these young people except the Department and those who are intimately involved in the work.

Dr. O'Connell: Is the Minister not aware of the fact that about four years ago there was an outcry about Marlborough House before the Government ever spoke about it? The reason why Finglas was built was that there [2155] was an outcry about Marlborough House.

Mr. Faulkner: There was no question of that being the reason.

Dr. O'Connell: It was the reason.

Mr. Faulkner: The Deputy is very well aware of the reason.

Mr. E. Collins: If the Government anticipated the Kennedy Report in 1967, why is it that in 1972 Marlborough House is still in existence?

Mr. Faulkner: As I explained on many occasions, there were very considerable difficulties in relation to this matter.

An Ceann Comhairle: I am calling Question No. 26.

Mr. E. Collins: Why is Marlborough House still in existence?

Mr. Faulkner: We are in the course of overcoming the problem there. It seems to annoy the Deputies opposite. I have pointed out the fact that no further committals on remand will be accepted in Marlborough House from 22nd May, 1972. This appears to be disturbing the Deputies who have been raising this question since they recognised the Government are doing so much in relation to this particular matter.

Mr. E. Collins: It is disturbing the Deputies because Marlborough House should have been closed down in 1967.

Dr. O'Connell: The Minister will be congratulated when Marlborough House is closed down.

Mr. Bruton: How many boys are at present detained on committal in Marlborough House?

An Ceann Comhairle: The question deals with the closing down of Marlborough House.

Mr. Faulkner: As I said, negotiations are proceeding on this matter at the moment. I gave the average in an earlier reply and the Deputy will get it in the Official Report.

[2156] Dr. O'Donovan: Question No. 24 dealt with the number of boys in Marlborough House and also the weekly committals.

An Ceann Comhairle: I am calling Question No. 26. This has taken an inordinate length of time.

Dr. O'Donovan: The Minister answered Questions Nos. 24 and 25 together.

Mr. Faulkner: The Minister did not take Questions Nos. 24 and 25 together.

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